{"id":3530,"date":"2024-09-20T15:26:35","date_gmt":"2024-09-20T22:26:35","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.morethantwo.com\/blog\/?p=3530"},"modified":"2024-09-20T15:26:38","modified_gmt":"2024-09-20T22:26:38","slug":"spotlight-on-is-veto-abuse","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.morethantwo.com\/blog\/2024\/09\/spotlight-on-is-veto-abuse","title":{"rendered":"Spotlight on \u201cIs Veto Abuse?\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

This blog post is part of a series on the new, vastly expanded\u00a0<\/em>More Than Two site<\/em><\/a>. This essay spotlights the\u00a0Veto as a Form of Abuse page<\/a>. Look for more spotlights in the coming days and weeks!<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"<\/a><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Social isolation is a tool of abuse. If you read any books or articles or research papers on intimate partner abuse, this idea pops up over and over again. In fact, some people consider social isolation\u2014control over who you\u2019re allowed to see, to spend time with, to be friends with, to communicate with, to associate with\u2014one of the defining elements of abuse.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

What does this mean for the practice of veto in polyamorous relationships?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I will admit I\u2019ve struggled for decades with the idea of veto. Veto, which is becoming less and less common but is still a relationship dynamic that\u2019s prevalent in polyamory, is the idea that if Alice is dating Bob, and Bob starts dating Cindy, and Alice doesn\u2019t like Cindy, Alice can order Bob to end things with Cindy and Bob will do it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019ve never vetoed a lover\u2019s other lover, but I\u2019ve had lovers veto my partners, and I\u2019ve been the subject of veto. At one time, many years ago, I considered veto a regrettable but sometimes necessary tool to help the people in a polyamorous relationship feel more secure, but as the years have gone by and I\u2019ve learned more about intimate partner abuse and the harm caused by veto, I\u2019ve become more and more skeptical of the idea.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Today, I am pretty comfortable saying veto is inherently abusive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s often defended by its adherents (including me, in the 1980s and 1990s) as a way to make people feel safe and secure; it\u2019s an ejection seat that can jettison the people in a relationship from a bad situation. What\u2019s wrong with that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Well, let\u2019s apply the same idea to a monogamous relationship. \u201cI need to be able to control who you see and speak to in order to feel secure with you.\u201d What would we say about a monogamous person who told his girlfriend something like that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Veto By Drama<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

It gets a lot more complicated, though, when we think about \u201cstealth veto,\u201d or veto by force of drama: a veto where there\u2019s no explicit agreement in place that person A gets ultimate say over Person B\u2019s relationships, but rather Person A becomes Grima Wormtongue, always whispering in Person B\u2019s ear about how terrible Person C is. I\u2019ve been in this situation too, where we had no veto arrangement in place but instead my lover starts smearing another lover, or even someone I find interesting but I\u2019m not in a romantic or sexual relationship with.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

For a long, long, long time, my general approach has been \u201call models over 18,\u201d which is a shorthand way to say \u201cwe\u2019re all adults, adults get to decide who they will and won\u2019t associate with, and it\u2019s not my place to tell other people how they should get along, who they should be friends with, or how they should relate to others.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But people can be manipulative, and I\u2019ve only recently started seeing just how pernicious and destructive this kind of manipulation (which often takes the form of gaslighting: \u201cYou\u2019re too idealistic, you see the best in everyone, it\u2019s not your fault you can\u2019t see how terrible Person C is\u201d) can be.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019ve participated in, and even enabled, this behavior, by stepping back and saying \u201chey, you two sort this out, it\u2019s nothing to do with me\u201d when a lover has decided she doesn\u2019t like my existing partner, or when an existing partner has decided she doesn\u2019t like my new lover. By stepping back, I opened myself up to being manipulated by whoever was whispering in my ear like Grima.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019ve also had this weaponized against me. It\u2019s shitty either way, and honestly, I\u2019ve learned that being hands-off, being all \u201cyou two are adults so you need to sort things out between you by yourselves, it\u2019s not my problem\u201d taken to an extreme can make me an enabler of toxic behavior.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So yes, on the one hand, saying something like \u201cyou two\u00a0must<\/em>\u00a0get along whether you want to or not\u201d is toxic behavior\u2014I\u2019ve had a lover say that to me and it was creepy and gross.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

On the other hand, \u201cif you treat the person I love contemptuously (and worse, if you whisper in my ear that the person I love deserves contempt) that\u2019s not my problem, you\u2019re both adults, you two figure it out, it\u2019s not my place to tell other grown-ass adults how to behave\u201d is also<\/em> toxic behavior.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

How do you square that circle? I legitimately don\u2019t know. I\u2019m still trying to figure it out. This isn\u2019t something that the polyamory scene has developed good institutional knowledge about.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Where the Promise of Veto Goes Wrong<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Back to veto.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"<\/a><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Overt or covert, veto is based on the idea that the first person to come along has the right to dictate a lover\u2019s other relationships, which is, if you think about it, a little strange…and kind of disrespectful to the people who come along after.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Never have I ever seen someone use a veto, directly or indirectly, and also express any concern whatsoever for the person being vetoed (or, for that matter, the partner they ostensibly \u201clove\u201d but are now hurting).<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The narrative, of course, is that the person being vetoed is toxic (where \u201ctoxic\u201d all too frequently means \u201cdisagreeable to me\u201d), and the standard narrative of veto is it\u2019s a way to intervene if a lover starts dating someone new who turns out to be problematic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But as my wife Joreth recently pointed out,<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n

Here\u2019s another part of the narrative to get out first – when a relationship is toxic but you haven\u2019t ever had a healthier one, getting involved in a healthier one via polyamory often makes the pre-existing toxic relationship stand out more as toxic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So a new partner often looks a lot like they\u2019re \u201cstealing\u201d someone because that mutual partner finally gets a taste of what a healthy relationship feels like and gravitates towards it, prompting the toxic partner to do more toxic things, which pushes the mutual towards the healthier person…<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n

Polyamorous folks who favor veto rarely seem to consider that perhaps, just perhaps, they might be the problematic element themselves. But then, abusers who socially isolate a victim rarely recognize what they\u2019re doing as problematic; it is often the case that those who abuse do so not because they wake up thinking \u201cI\u2019m going to be an abusive person today!\u201d, but rather \u201cI feel scared and insecure and the only way I can keep these feelings at bay is by controlling my partner.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And yet, in a nutshell, isn\u2019t that exactly what veto is?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So why talk about this at all? Why even have these conversations about veto? If some folks feel better with a veto, why not let them do their own thing?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Well, for one thing, I genuinely do believe veto causes quantifiable, unnecessary harm.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But for another, I saw this image floating around on the Internet a while back, and it really resonated with me:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"<\/a><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

When you decline to create or to curate a culture in your spaces, you\u2019re responsible for what spawns in the vacuum.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

We live in a society that increasingly favors displays of performative cruelty and ever-increasing ideological purity over nuanced discussions that actually seek to build sound ethical behavior.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019ve participated in that. When my former partner Shelly, who had argued passionately against veto when she was on the barrel end but had quite different views when she was on the trigger end, told me of another lover she wanted me to break up with, \u201ccan you believe she still thinks she gets to be with you?\u201d, I meekly acquiesced and ended my relationship with the person Shelly disapproved of\u2026something I still regret to this day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I would like to do better. I would like to see the whole of the polyamory scene do better. We get there by talking about these things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

This blog post is part of a series on the new, vastly expanded\u00a0More Than Two site. This essay spotlights the\u00a0Veto as a Form of Abuse page. Look for more spotlights in the coming days and weeks! Social isolation is a tool of abuse. If you read any books or articles […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[31],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-3530","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-ethics-2"],"yoast_head":"\nSpotlight on \u201cIs Veto Abuse?\u201d - More Than Two\u2122<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.morethantwo.com\/blog\/2024\/09\/spotlight-on-is-veto-abuse\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Spotlight on \u201cIs Veto Abuse?\u201d - More Than Two\u2122\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"This blog post is part of a series on the new, vastly expanded\u00a0More Than Two site. 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This essay spotlights the\u00a0Veto as a Form of Abuse page. Look for more spotlights in the coming days and weeks! Social isolation is a tool of abuse. 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